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| Ashes Forever |
Known for their dynamic sound,
unconventional time signatures, melodic intricacies, and passionate vocals,
Ashes Forever redefies their genre. Dillon on drums, while simultaneously
contributing to vocals, takes listeners by surprise with each change in time
signature. Gaskill contributes creative riffs and more heartfelt vocals. Every
intended emotion can be felt in their music and leaves no listener
second-guessing as to what they’re about.
With the use of social networking
websites and other forms of new technology, Ashes Forever has emerged and
established a solid fan base. They have proved that the financial backing from a
label is unnecessary in order to become successful. However, dealing with
negative emotions, “hard negotiators,” and “positional bargainers,” has not made
the road easy for them. As with any industry, difficulties in negotiation will
arise (whether it regards problems with autonomy, role, status, appreciation,
or affiliation). Roger Fisher describes how to effectively counteract these
difficulties in his works, “Beyond Reason” and “Getting to Yes.”
I had the opportunity to interview
Matt Dillon and ask him about his experiences as musician starting out in the
new era of DIY. His extensive knowledge about the music scene has made him
quite the resource for other indie musicians looking to establish their careers
within the music industry. He was kind enough to answer some questions and
offer some advice.
When did you first discover your passion for music and how did you
decide that you wanted to make a career of it?
“The first time I ever sat behind a drum set, I was in love. It took
me years to really develop the level of playing I'm at now, so I was never
really serious about going the distance with any of my previous bands. It was
all just really a learning experience for me, and helped me develop my skills.
When I started this band with James, things were different. We really clicked
when writing music, and there was an element of freedom and growth there early
on that we haven't ever experienced before. That realization was axiomatic for
both of us from the first practice on, and we've been working our hardest ever
since.”
Why the name change? Did it impact your style of music at all? Was
it hard getting fans to recognize the switch?
“Up until we released our first album, we really didn't know where
we were going from a marketing standpoint. It was all a learning experience for
us. I guess at first, we just wanted to just have fun (hence the name Don't
Give A F***), but then we wrote our lyrics, and the things we wrote about
evolved into something more serious, and we wanted our band name to reflect
that. With our second EP, we changed our name to Ashes Forever, something we
thought was more marketable and relevant to us. However, I don't regret the old
name at all though. It let people know early on our feelings about the music
industry, and it's an important part of our band history.”
As an independent musician just starting out, was it hard to make
industry contacts and find networking opportunities? What were some of the
difficulties you faced?
“Absolutely, it is always a hard thing for anyone in an unsigned
band. Fortunately for us, my bandmate James is an established promoter with a
degree in Music Business, and he books the majority of the shows for our genre
in our location. He's worked really hard over the years and has gathered more
contacts than the average person, so that makes things a little easier on us
when it comes to playing in or around our home town. Playing out of town
though, that's a hassle. It really comes down to just making friends in other
bands and hoping they have connections like we do in their home town. Sometimes
we get lucky and we'll find a nice DIY establishment that actually cares about
helping unsigned bands play. Most of the time though, it's like squeezing water
from a stone because it's all about who you know or how much money you'll make,
so you have to be aware that these things are going to be extremely difficult
for you when you start a band. When it comes to networking with industry
contacts, the best ones we have are the ones that reach out to us for a review
or an interview because they actually like our music. Most independent works
that claim to be catered to independent artists aren't. Again, it's about how
much exposure you are going to get them, not the other way around, so you must
have a substantial following before they take you on. It's a dilemma, because
industry help is essential for your growth as a band. That's a hardship that
unfortunately most bands will have to face.”
From where do you draw your inspiration?
“I know this sounds cliché because I've read this same answer in a
lot of interviews, but we literally draw our inspiration from everything we
hear, and that's why our band is so weird and hard to classify. Our influences
range everywhere from classical music to death metal, and we try to write in
such a way where there is something in our music for everyone. We've been
labeled as "genre-defying" in another interview, but I think we get
way too much credit for that than we actually deserve. We are always
challenging ourselves as musicians, and part of that challenge is recycling as
little as possible from previous works. Unfortunately, a vast majority of the
popular bands these days essentially are just a repackaged version of a band
before them, because they use the same writing style and technique. I don't
think we are pioneering a new genre or anything, I just think we are just
pioneering individuality and personal growth in the scene, something I'd like
to see way more of in the future.”
What was it like to play with other big names? How did those
experiences come about?
“We've been extremely fortunate to have the opportunity to play with
a lot of well-established big names. Some of those came from James, and some of
those just came from working hard, simply put. Hard work does pay off. Don't
let anyone tell you otherwise. If you practice as much as you possibly can,
eventually that will set you apart from other bands.”
What has been the most rewarding experience you’ve had thus far?
“Every time a fan tells us our music means something to them, every
time a fan downloads our free album, every time a fan pays for a CD, every time
people come to see us live, every question our fans ask us, that all means a
great deal to us. That is the reason we continue to do this, and nothing else
is more important.”
This class that I’m taking now is focused on negotiating and deal
making. Have you ever had to deal with negative emotions or work towards a
mutually beneficial agreement with someone in the music industry?
“I'm sure James has way more stories about this than I do when it
comes to booking shows, but there definitely is something that comes to my
mind. When we recorded our first EP, we were offered a deal by someone we
didn't know too well. He was going to record us for cheap, and in return he'd
gain exposure and future clientele through us. It was a pretty simple recording
that wouldn't require too much work on his end. Long story short, he had us
wait in the studio for 12 hours and start recording drums at 5 am, guitars at
8am, vocals that night. Needless to say, it was a horrible experience, but we
were grateful for it. He then made us wait 4 months for a mix he spent maybe an
hour on, and then demanded we play in his band because we "owed" him,
or he would sue us for the rights to our songs.”
Some professionals in the music industry have negative reputations.
Have you ever had to deal with someone using dirty tricks or treating you
unfairly?
“One time we played this huge fest, and we were the only band not
officially listed on the bill. Even though we were higher up in the card, drew
a lot of people, and heard the headlining bands say in interviews that they
couldn't wait to finally play with us, a lot of people didn't think we deserved
to be officially advertised for it like every other band was, or included on
the posters, t-shirts, and promotional CDs. The day before the show, we were
asked if we could play the following day instead, after having a lot of people
preorder tickets for our day. We didn't let that happen, but after unloading
all of our equipment day of the show, we were told that we only had ten minutes
(set up and take off time included). As we set up, the previous band had no
idea we were playing, so they invited everyone out for an intermission. It was
a huge slap in the face, but something all unsigned bands should be prepared
for.”
Would you prefer remaining independent or signing with a label? Why?
“I'm happy we've had to work really hard to get to where we are, but
it certainly is frustrating seeing some bands get picked up by independent
labels that have never played a show, or let alone spent any money on their
music. I can't see how work ethic like that can make any label money,
especially when a lot of the time these bands are just a bunch of overused,
recycled ideas. Maybe one day if there is a label that thinks outside of the
box and approaches us because they love our music, we'll consider, but at the
pressing moment the idea of signing to a label is just as off-putting as it is
exciting to get our music to a larger audience.”
Do you have any advice for other independent musicians just starting
out?
“My number one piece of advice would be to get a job. Unless you are
Chester Bennington in Linkin Park, your music is not going to pay for itself.
Practice a lot, and prioritize your spending. Shell out extra money when you
can for a better recording, or pressed CDs compared to those DIY ones you were
thinking about doing. If applicable, work with contracts. Expect to work hard
and be stressed out all of the time. One day, it might pay off. Until then,
have fun with what you are doing, because that is the most important thing.”
It seems as if through hard work and
dedication, Ashes Forever know who they are, where they want to be, and how to
get there. Visit their Facebook for more information about new releases and upcoming performances.
Fisher, R., Ury, W.,
& Patton, B. (1991). Getting to yes: negotiating agreement without
giving in (2nd ed.). New York, N.Y.: Penguin Books.
Fisher, R., &
Shapiro, D. (2005). Beyond reason: using emotions as you negotiate. New
York: Viking.
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